'Might is Right'

Jay, thank you for taking the time to do this interview with me, my metal brother. Please explain your new release to the readers. Achtung! Destroy The Weak. What does this album mean to you? Why Conjuring Records as the label, and speak about the minimalist artwork. Why so long to release this album?

You’re welcome, good sir, and thank you in turn! I am honored to be interviewed by the animal who spewed such killer gutturals on early Internal Bleeding. Voracious Contempt is such a fantastic album.

There is a lot of meaning and passion driving Achtung! Destroy The Weak. A motif running throughout the album is the necessity to avoid victimhood and to celebrate and achieve self-actualization and success through will to power and strength. Modernity is plagued with victimhood. It’s a disgusting, weak mindset. Yes, there is a great deal of suffering, challenges that affect people in different ways, etc. People are handed different cards in life. Equality does not exist. With all of this in mind, why choose the path of weakness, curling up in the fetal position and giving up? When life hits you hard, and it hits all of us, don’t be sad. Be mad. Let that rage inspire you. Push yourself through adversity. Be a lion. Be a wolf. “Take life by the balls and squeeze until they crunch.” I just quoted Biohazard’s Urban Discipline. Some in our scene may scoff at me for quoting Biohazard. I really don’t care. They can SMD. That’s a killer lyric from a killer band. And I don’t have any “guilty pleasures” in life. I like what I like, and without apology.

I discuss some Machiavellian concepts and Carl Jung’s psychological discussion of the importance of bloodline, ancestral memory, and connection. I value my father to no end. He was just a small, premature baby born in a hut in Africa, and he worked hard, moved to the West, and became a very successful physician and clinic owner who was recognized by members of Congress. So, I really have no time nor patience when hearing BS about how some people can’t make it in America. Anyone can become anything they want if they desire enough in this beautiful land of opportunity.

Anyway, there certainly was an extensive period between our first album and this — seven years. Trench isn’t going anywhere, though, and while we definitely favor quality over quantity, you better believe that we will never take that long between releases again. In short, a variety of factors are linked to the long wait for the album to come out: Familial deaths, career changes, distance between members, and traveling time involved in getting together. This isn’t a diss to any previous member, but we finally have the right lineup in place with members who are able to write, record, perform, and hit the road with more relative ease and with more ambition. In the meantime, we are eager to showcase this new material on stage.

We were in talks with a few labels, but we ended up choosing Conjuring Records because it’s a smaller label that’s driven by passion, and they’re putting a strong focus on us — an optimal situation rather than being on a larger label that would just neglect you.

As for the artwork, imagery from older warfare, we wanted something simple and true to our aesthetic so that it will remain in your mind’s eye.

How does this album differ from your debut album, and did you achieve the goals you wanted to?

Our demo “put us on the map,” so to speak. I mean that relatively speaking, of course. No one has lofty rock star dreams, and we will always have day jobs and daily hustles. But I digress… When I say that it put us on the map, within our corner of war metal, bestial black metal, and black/death metal, it caught a lot of people’s attention. We have always maintained our war metal roots but never wanted to be boxed in. So, our first album, Hatred Prayer, revealed our passion for death metal and black metal.

I think we will always have continuity and avoid taking any drastic left turns. So, I think the new album is a refined version of the debut but with more elaborate song structuring and phrasing. Vocally, I wanted the lyrical storytelling to come across as though it’s being narrated, to an extent. I remember reading a few Steve Tucker interviews—a huge influence upon me, by the way—when they were promoting Gateways to Annihilation, and he said that he wanted to have that approach, so that it wasn’t necessarily cutthroat and relentless throughout. There needs to be contrast to the extremity in music; otherwise, the potency just gets stale. So on Achtung! Destroy The Weak, the cadence and timbre move according to the underlying thematic tone, very much like a conversation or monologue would flow. While the album as a whole is absolutely savage, it does the same thing on a musical level. I think we achieved that goal. We always want to be extreme, but to make music that is memorable.

Trench Warfare has been around for several years now. Explain what is important in being in a band, writing music, developing your own lyrical and vocal style, which I think you have a Martin van Drunen flair, and what Trench Warfare adds to the scene?

The importance of being in a band varies significantly from person to person. For some people, that may involve fame and fortune or chasing tail. Even in underground metal, some people seem to have those lame goals without admitting it. For us as a band and for me personally, and without intending to sound pompous, creating art that’s meaningful, powerful, and lasting is what matters. It may not reach that many people, but I want as many people to hear it as possible. Some people, including a former member, claim that they don’t care about others hearing the music or what their opinions may be. Bullshit. If that’s the case, recording music wouldn’t be a goal at all. Anyway, the artistic expression, the performance, matters. I enjoy that aspect more than the writing and recording, actually. It’s cheesy to use this term, and it’s overly abundant in our scene, but it is very ritualistic. Everything involved in the process is very cathartic, and I absolutely do need this. If I didn’t have this, the gym wouldn’t be enough of an outlet for my aggressive side. Hell, I’d probably wind up dead or in prison if I didn’t have this outlet. Sure, writing, recording, and performing can be a great deal of fun. But considering the content and intensity involved, there are certainly moments where it doesn’t feel that good. It can be quite uncomfortable, like the feeling a snake may have when shedding its skin.

It was definitely important for me early on to develop my own style and approach, both lyrically and vocally. Good call on spotting out Martin Van Drunen as an influence! I love Pestilence and Asphyx. Along those lines, John Tardy from Obituary has impacted me, Marc Grewe from Morgoth to a lesser extent. And there are a host of others like, again, Steve Tucker. Who else? Barney, Kevin Sharp, and I listen to a lot of hardcore. Lou Koller from Sick Of It All (RIP) and Jon Gula from Turmoil come to mind. Phil Anselmo, of course. My friend in Belgium, Kevin Lerminiau from a band called Wolfskull, and I wrote and recorded a song many years ago when I was over there. He said my vocals sounded like a cross between tough guy hardcore and John Tardy. I can see that.

In terms of lyrical content, so many bands of our general ilk seem to be content to peddle such generic tropes and clichés involving war, death, and satanism. We definitely tackle all of those subjects, except the latter, but I’d like to think we do so in a manner that is much more rooted in reality. I’m not opposed to fantasy lyrics entirely as far as my listening consumption. When I discuss the darker side of existence, however, it is based in reality. We aren’t one of these bands made up of corpse-paint-covered wankers who are essentially engaging in nothing more than vampire cosplay.

Certain references to military and war are oftentimes metaphorical, because life is a battle. Then again, some of it is literal in the way that we want the West to win during conflict, whenever that may be referenced. To that end, we want America to win ultimately. America will win. War will never end, and we need to stay on top. The third World War is already here. It has just begun in a soft sense. I’m not wearing a tinfoil hat. I’m just a realist.

When you put it all together, I think it’s clear that Trench Warfare offers a lot to the scene, synthesizing desired and familiar sounds into an uncompromising expression that is individual and unique.

The scene and fans are ever-changing. With the band splintered in various parts of the country, what are your plans for shows, touring, challenges, and your personal lives? Is full-on touring feasible?

It’s interesting that my recent move from Austin to rural Oregon places us bandmates further apart geographically at the precise time that we have never been as poised to play out and about. What I mean by that is that we are no longer restrained by the work schedules and job constraints of former members. Those factors are understandable barriers, but now that they aren’t in our path, our current line-up is eager to play more shows, fests, and yes, now we can finally tour once the right opportunities are in place.

How serious are you all in wanting Trench Warfare to achieve the next level of success?

Success can mean very different things to different people. Is it measured as far as commercial reach and number of units sold? That’s important for some, not us. In our eyes, success is creating art, performing it, and having it connect with as many people as possible for whom the music really matters. We have had elements within the band who have held the band back, and we aren’t going to put up with that ever again. We are eager, and we are hungry.

Let’s skip around a bit and let the readers know all about your metal reviews and writing for magazines such as Pit, how you got into it, why you did, and the challenges as a writer — like ,did you ever review a band’s album, only to then have them talk smack about the review online or send you their take on how the review should have gone?

After I got my first academic degree, I had all this knowledge about metal, and I just wanted to do something to take my love for it to the next level. I had been in several terrible short-lived bands over the course of a summer, so I didn’t think that was the path at the time. I was a rabid consumer of metal and music journalism, the magazines, fanzines, and webzines; so that made sense. I dove balls deep into it and, as with anything, there have been lulls here and there, but I’ve been at it for more than half my life at this point. I’ve been an editor for Pit Magazine, I wrote for Metal Maniacs, Unrestrained, Hails & Horns, AMP, and Outburn, as well as many webzines. These days, I’m writing for Blabbermouth and Metal Underground. I’ll branch out further in due time. I did news journalism years ago, including crime reporting, and I’m sure I’ll dabble in that again down the road.

There have been challenges, as with anything in life, but I wouldn’t consider disgruntled interview or review subjects as being challenges. You know me, so you’re well aware that I don’t take myself very seriously, but I take everything I do very seriously, including singing and music journalism. I can understand why a band may be upset in the face of a negative review. But at the end of the day, however serious or not a reviewer takes the process, it’s their opinion, so it shouldn’t stick with a band. The most outrageous response to me was when a hardcore band once messaged me following a negative review, saying, “You better not ever show your face in Philly if you know what’s good for you.” I mean, c’mon, dude…

The talented multi-instrumentalist Darren Cesca reached out to me following my less-than-stellar review of Arsis many years ago. He’s primarily known as a drummer, and he did that for them around that time. He had a brief, mostly respectful back-and-forth with me. I didn’t find the album even remotely catchy, to which he seemed frustrated. He insisted that it was catchy and kept pressing me to almost… cave in and agree with him? It was absurd, and I just “left him on read,” as the kids say.

Sean Malone, formerly of Cynic, is another great talent who wasn’t necessarily that pleasant. I was interviewing him for his Gordion Knot prog metal/fusion project, and we were emailing back and forth. Many musicians can be assholes, as you know, so there are a million small situations I’m sure I can’t even remember nor care about, but this comes to mind because he was just exceptionally snooty in his conversational tone. I had no beef with him, really, though. May he rest in peace.

As seldom as I ever see or speak with him, I get along with Phil Anselmo quite well. He was upset and publicly expressed that sentiment when I spilled the beans in a blog about one of his upcoming projects, the nature of it, and so on and so forth. I reached out to him to talk about it, and the beef was squashed essentially.

Those are just a couple of things off the top of my head.

Quick fun question: you’re moving to a secluded island, and you’ve overpacked. You can only take 5 albums. Which would they be and why?

I despise these questions because they’re so fun yet so frustrating! How can I narrow it down? I’ll begin by throwing out some bands who could be included as honorable mentions. Those bands would be, I guess, Soilent Green, Acid Bath and Blasphemy. This could change on any given day, but let me give you five albums in no particular order:

Type O Negative – October Rust

Black Sabbath – Black Sabbath

Pantera – The Great Southern Trendkill

Brutal Truth – Sounds of the Animal Kingdom

Napalm Death – Enemy of the Music Business

As you get older, how are your vocals holding up playing shows and recording? Do you take care of your voice? Any vocal exercises? When was the last time you played live, and what’s on the horizon for touring and shows – do you have a booking manager?

I’m pleased with my voice these days. I think I will continue to improve over time, and my voice has certainly gotten stronger. I do my best to stay well hydrated for general health, gains in the gym, and for singing. Before practicing or playing shows, I always go through melodic vocal warm-ups, about 20 minutes’ worth. I used to do a bit of choir in high school. (In due time, I’d like to perform in other kinds of bands, perhaps doom-related, noise rock or otherwise. I’m not sure. That will happen whenever the time is right.) Anyway, I lifted a lot from those old choir, melodic vocal warm-ups and I’ve supplemented that with YouTube videos. I know that screaming has become an “art” of sorts. I haven’t yet done so, but I like improving my skill set in all that I do in life, so I definitely want to dive into those screaming tutorials at some point.

We played at the end of June in Austin at the Lost Well with our longtime friends in Imprecation. We’ve done many shows with those legendary satanic death metal maniacs. We don’t have anything on deck at the moment other than Mark Madness Fest in Illinois that’s slated for June of 2027, but as mentioned before, we are eager to do as many shows and make the most of any touring opportunities as possible. And no, we do not have a booking agent, but we are open to that sort of thing as long as the arrangement would make sense for us.

Moving musically forward, how do you see Trench Warfare expanding in sound, style, vocally and lyrically?

We will always maintain an element of war metal at our very core, around which we have allowed the growth of death metal into our sound as well as aspects of black metal. Going forward, Dustin Putz will be the primary songwriter musically, and he is doing exactly that. He has already started working on some stuff where the foundation is war metal, but his great passion for bands like Dismember, Autopsy, and Pestilence is also informing the direction. And our drummer JP Campo is fantastic. He is a rabid maniac, but his style is so controlled.

There are some other ideas in mind. I’d rather not spill all the beans, but suffice it to say, it’ll be intense, and we really want to push the envelope of what extreme music can be. Vocally, I’m sure my hardcore influences will continue to shine through. Lyrically, without straying from the subgenres at hand completely, there will continue to be a tapestry that involves history, literature, psychology, and personal experience.

Since your debut album, coming from a band and fan perspective, how has the scene changed? Are you happy with the changes? Too many bands — have shows changed, and what are some current bands you enjoy that are new, as well as older bands that you listen to, regardless of genre?

There is a lack of originality and boldness in all of extreme music, which is annoying. I don’t want to say that’s the case across the board, but it does seem to be the norm, unfortunately. Homogeneous sounds, imagery, and ideals plague the underground, and that’s never what it should be about. Groupthink is lame and weak. That’s the opposite of what we are about. We preach and celebrate the power of individual strength and identity. Of course, there can be pride in some form of group identity, but build upon that legacy. Don’t just be a carbon copy of all that inspires you. Be yourself. That goes for music and life overall, generally speaking.

I’m sure some may say, “Okay, boomer,” about this following point. I don’t care. I keep it real. (I’m Gen X, by the way, but that’s neither here nor there.) Underground extreme music, and I’m talking about virtually every subgenre and style, is inundated with “woke” scene tourists. There needs to be more gatekeeping in that regard. It’s weak and pathetic, and it shouldn’t be tolerated. Sure, you can see how some of that infiltrated hardcore and grind, but it is radical in an absurd way that ultimately isn’t benevolent. It doesn’t belong. It certainly doesn’t belong in darker-themed styles. Music should be extreme, but political extremes are always collectivist in nature. All of that is for weaklings. Celebrate the individual. Equality is a myth. Everyone is handed a different hand in life. Make the most of life. Build your own empire and live on your own terms. I’m speaking about underground music scenes and society at large. And this goes back to the meaning of the album. Self-defeating ideologies and victimhood need to be demonized. Be a lion. Be a wolf. Celebrate the self and free will. The notion of “Will To Power” is fascinating, endearing, appealing, and it needs to be championed.

As far as specific bands that we have been into as a band and as far as my own taste goes, let me see here. I can bring up Blasphemy, Beherit, Deiphago, Diocletian, Nuclearhammer, Genocide Shrines, Tetragrammacide, Wargrinder, Ritual Genocide, Triumph, Archgoat, Morbosidad, Imprecation, Obeisance, Satanik Goat Ritual and Nunslaughter.

Let me add some stuff that I’ve been listening to very recently: Abominator, Atomic Aggressor, Atomicide, the new Neurosis and the new Butthole Surfers, as well as Shane Embury’s solo album. Also, I’ve really been digging some aggressive African hip hop: Nigeria’s ODUMODUBLVCK and Kenya’s Wakadinali.

Before we go, Jay, what would you like the readers to know about Trench Warfare that they may not know? Maybe about all your ridiculous and funny memes on social media and, well, let’s be honest, you sometimes are pretty outspoken on there – ever get any flack for that?

Trench Warfare is your worst nightmare, reader! Jajajaja Again, I don’t take myself too seriously, but I take everything I do very seriously. Social media is great escapism from the BS that we all deal with in our daily lives and with regard to the daily grind. So, it should be fun. I joke around, and I’m outspoken for sure, about life, sociopolitical matters, and pretty much everything. I’m always myself, as everyone should be. I can understand that some need to be mindful of saying certain things due to work-related obligations, family matters, et cetera. That is all understandable. But if one feels the need to self-censor for a metal audience, they are no longer metal. They are just pussies. Full stop. Never let metal be defanged. Metal is a wild beast. May she forever roam free and unrestrained.