Comments on: The State of Double-kick Drumming?

By: Anders Kobro

Anders Kobro — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 13:01:24 +0000

Very good article, and I could not agree more! And this comes from me, a metaldrummer from Norway playing in several bands with international recognition. I have never in a studio recording session used triggers, nor do I allow the technicians to do any quantanizing or use sample layer from a plug-in. I am as fortunate that I did my 2 first albums in the early 90`s when the recording industry still was analouge using 2″ magnet tapes, all mixing had to be done manually (no automation then) etc.. I am a double kickdrummer by all means, but as you state in the article here. The main problem is the use of quantanizing, the same samples (toontrack superior drummer to be exact) and the mentalaty amongst younger musicians that more is better, and the faster the better drummer. Its a very frustrating issue since the instrument drums is so much more than fast drumming.
Ofcourse if a song has a parts and arrangements that fast drumming enhance the aggression then ofcourse its what I do. It is more a misunderstood conseption of the instrument today (specially amongst metalfans) that the faster drummer is the better they are. Maybe one day people will understand how wrong that is. You also mentioned first time you heard Painkiller with Scott Travis and how mindblowing that was. I was there too, and those days never come back unfortunally.
If younger drummers ask me of advice of how to play faster my answer are that they need to learn to play slow first, wich maybe take up to 5-8 years to master. 3 most important tasks for a drummer.

1 Make the rest of the band better
2 Its more important what a drummer dont play, than what he plays.
3 Disiplin and accuracy.

I have a rule on myself saying that if I get noticed on a album, then I have done it wrong.!
Cheers from Norway.

Kobro

By: Jose

Jose — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 22:01:34 +0000

Lars Ulrich maintaining a double-kick pattern for 4 minutes.

HAHA

By: Dimaension X

Dimaension X — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:22:37 +0000

…hey, remember that Nicko McBrain does use double kicks at all – strictly a single bass drum player, like John Bonham – no doubles at all.

By: Dimaension X

Dimaension X — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:19:58 +0000

I remember hearing Ray Herrera and his amazing double-kick work on “Demanufacture” – it’s almost never constant 16ths running all the time – he breaks it up, syncopates it, and Dino Cazares played the same “beat” in unison on guitar – that’s what really made them stand out.

By: Reignman35

Reignman35 — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 18:55:02 +0000

Yeah dude that albums slays… I found them and should have that cd in the mail this week. If you like that one also check out Acephala’s new one “Division By Zero”.

By: noe,lvis txdm

noe,lvis txdm — Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:47:08 +0000

“Descend Dethrone” is an amazing album. i recently discovered them one late december night trolling through ebay auctions for rare shirts…

By: Drew

Drew — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 02:07:30 +0000

Very good piece and comments. On a slight tangent, you could apply all the same statements to the guitar playing of the technical death metal scene of today. It is no coincidence that bands became more and more technical as recording techniques made it easier to do. I am not at all a Korn fan, but their latest album was apparently recorded on analog equipment. Can multiple punch-ins be done on analog…sure (view “a year and a half” Metallica doc) but it is by far harder to accomplish. I would challenge all tech death metal bands of today to try an full analog recording. Bet they sound a bit different.

By: DK777

DK777 — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:53:32 +0000

Gotta second the words of reignman35: break up the beat, syncopate it, and you’re in a much better space–musically–than folks who can blast out a gazillion bass drum beats per minute.

Want to hear tasty double bass drums? Check out Ihsahn’s latest, AFTER, with the drummer from Spiral Architect, Asgeir Mickelson. I mean, blasting at full tempo is great, but this guy plays around with the beat, cuts it to shreds, shuffles it like a deck of cards, and throws it back at you in ways that are both confounding and totally grooving. Tell me there’s been a better metal drumming performance in the past year. I’ll argue all day with you.

The players who can go at near-300 beats per minute are commendable, but they’re not necessarily musical. I’d rather hear a drummer who looks at the kit–bass drums included–like an artist’s palette and throws colors into his metal playing: “here, there’s very little bottom end; there, I’ll bury you in bass drum notes!” To me, that’s music.

And I concur: good write-up, brother!

By: vugelnox

vugelnox — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:16:14 +0000

I think the concept of dynamics plays into this discussion too. Double bass can bring power and extra oomph to a song when used appropriately but you need that context of fast/slow, tension and release…etc to achieve that effect. If you come flying out of the gate with the foot on the accelerator and maintain that without any change for damn near the entire song then you lose this shift in intensity and end up in the land of washing machines, blenders and garbage disposals. This fact isn’t lost on a good drummer and gives extra merit to your statement that all these super-click teenage drumming sensations really aren’t that good behind all the studio trickery. Hence me being very confident in saying Vinny Appice > whoever mans the kit for Brain Drill

By: Shawn Pelata

Shawn Pelata — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:53:16 +0000

Yeah, I briefly mentioned blast-beats in there, but being as I’m not a drummer I felt that if I tried to get too deep into drumming itself, I’d be in over my head. I approached it from a listeners point of view…

By: appollyonx

appollyonx — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:34:37 +0000

Really good article. Double bass rolls do add the spice that makes Death and Black Metal what they are, and within those sub-genres of Metal the drummer is really what makes the band so punishing. But if double bass is getting over-used, what about the all important blast beat? Is it as important as it’s become? Early on it was rare to hear it in a Death Metal release. Death didn’t need it, Massacre didn’t,neither did Obituary. Its worth contemplating.

By: mike

mike — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 00:31:37 +0000

Weren’t Fear Factory/Raymond on Demanufacture one of the fist bands to pioneer and influence a lot of newer bands with the rapid fire double kick stuff?

By: Reignman35

Reignman35 — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:53:44 +0000

Being a drummer and realizing how hard it is being able to play fast was one of the reasons I picked up sticks and was drawn to metal in the first place; you did a good job showing respect in that area. As someone who listens to a lot of death (brutal death) metal in particular, it does start to bleed together.

That is where guys like Inferno from Behemoth and others have learned if you syncopate and break up a double kick pattern you can come up with some amazing shit. Jason Bittner is a great example… not the fastest but dude’s control and ability to drop in a double kick part at will and back off of it just as fast is just downright sick. Hoglan is also a control master but can also flat out fly if need be.

If you want to hear some creative kick work check out an album by Deamon called “Descend Dethrone”. Been jamming the hell out of that after discovering it recently and for brutal death metal there are some really interesting kick patterns going on; not just straight 32nds at 220 beats per minute. Good article overall.

By: AARONIUS

AARONIUS — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:38:34 +0000

Well said sir. I love hearing ridiculous speed on the kick drums, but it’s true after a while it’s just too much.

Of course I feel that way in general for most metal these days. Eveyone is trying so hard to be sooooooo brooootal, and yeah it’s nearly impossible to recognize a drummers playing these days.

“Hey is that the dude from Job for Cowboy?” “Or wait, maybe that’s homeboy from Whitechapel”. “No no man that’s the guy from Danza”.

If you can pick out a current drummer by his style in this day and age I salute you.

By: Shawn Pelata

Shawn Pelata — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:32:49 +0000

Thanks guys…

By: faust666

faust666 — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:37:21 +0000

sorry, that was me being random. Good write-up btw. Cheers!!

By: faust666

faust666 — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:36:16 +0000

I think you’re a Key Lime Pie Shawn….

By: Nick Taxidermy

Nick Taxidermy — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:07:29 +0000

well stated.

I remember the first time I heard Emperor’s Anthems To The Welkin At Dusk. Trym’s drumming on that is superhuman, and his blasting is still, 10 years later, among the fastest I’ve heard. but today, double bass is often just really dull if it’s not being played by someone with real character, like a Gene Hoglan or a Horgh. I think some of the kids need to do some shit that’s less trite.

By: Shawn Pelata

Shawn Pelata — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:45:59 +0000

Like I said, I do like it. I also like key lime pie, but I don’t want it for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day.

By: faust666

faust666 — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:45:56 +0000

3 cheers for Double Kicks… me likey !!! Although I do get your point about every single modern metal band, especially deathcore\DM band, trying to outdo the others by using a constant barrage of over the top blastbeats and double kicks.